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Toh guysss aaj debate ho hi jaaye
8CA/vb
No.115624
Should India buy F-35 or SU-57 ?
F-35 pros:
>Stealthy as fuck
>VTOL/STOL
>That's it really
SU-57 pros:
>SUper maneuver ability
>2 engines
>Cheap
>Fuck America
Winner:
HAL AMCA MK 2 LOADED WITH BRAHMOS 2 HYPERSONIC CRUISE MISSILES
(i have no fucking idea how planes work, i'm just talking out of my ass)
8CA/vb
No.115626
The only reason I'm even on /b/ is because bijli kati hui hai and I've got nothing to do kek.
7HZPSd
No.115633
We need to build our own weapons.
India should focus on killer Drones, that can carry heavy payloads.
Jets, Tanks etc are all obsolete now
gLhB8h
No.115636
>>115624(OP)
>Should India buy F-35 or SU-57 ?
Neither, expediate AMCA project.
Churn out a parallel engine program at fast pace.
Tejas mk2, mk1a production and rollout should be fast forwarded.
Go all in Super sukhoi program.
Any order that should come for is at best repeat order for rafales 36 or 64 that's it.
No more import.
Also, people are exaggerating the impact of pakis getting 5'th gen jet by chinks, when they will get is also a question.
But even if they do, IAF has other means to perform SEAD, DEAD pretty easily and dominantly - yes pakis will further improve with probably better AD systems from Chinks or even US.
In fact IAF has the ability to literally take out their aircrafts before they even fly.
gLhB8h
No.115637
>>115633
>India should focus on killer Drones, that can carry heavy payloads.
Yeah also this, more drone and anti drone systems across entire western region.
Invest in kamikaze drones, LR_LACM production, once you take out their major ADs with Brahmos, nirbhay and kamikaze drones can create havoc.
8CA/vb
No.115643
>>115636
US really has no morals, huh. I thought they would "never forget" 9/11. All that goes out the window the second money is to be made.
gLhB8h
No.115645
>>115643
>morals
meme tbh
Osama was hiding in pakistan on the behest of CIA. It's foolish propaganda to think that americans were not aware of his presence.
Pakistan is an outpost of Uk/USA nothing else.
8CA/vb
No.115648
>>115645
What do you think about them Korean and Turkish 5th gen fighters ? Are they any good ? Or its just nothingcorndog ?
8CA/vb
No.115649
>>115645
Also, how do I hide my golden monkey when I post ?
iYQLYL
No.115651
gLhB8h
No.115655
>>115648
KAAN is erdog's pr project. They literally could barely have their 4th gen aircraft in house - hurjet.
They don't have test facilities anything. It was a design by UK company, CKD from all the NATO countries resulting in just one meme flight.
Even if it has to get into production it will take a long while, they are just substituting most of it from imports. Even their drone programs for the major parts was this only.
iYQLYL
No.115656
F679X6
No.115657
>>115636
2032 tak India ka 5th gen aayega. Pakistan can get one from China by 2027. That's 5 years where they would have air superiority.
z1YRDw
No.115659
>>115657
2032 tak engine bhee nahi ban paayega
F679X6
No.115660
India will just buy the Su-57, developed of our own can continue on the side
gLhB8h
No.115661
>>115657
>air superiority
not a single pakistani aircraft which crosses border will survive.
Even if they use standoff weapons, you need to understand that pakistan is just one linear strip most of the bases are within the range of our brahmos.
You don't need 5th gen to counter a 5th gen, let alone 2 dozens of those whose operational cost pakis will have to bleed through their eyes to sustain.
gLhB8h
No.115662
>>115660
Su57 is meme aircraft no matter what ruskies shill.
IAF has made its mind that it's not interested in that, there's a report by ADA chief where they don't even consider Felon as a 5th gen jet.
There's still slight chance however but i would still bet that follow on order for rafales will be followed that's it.
gLhB8h
No.115663
>>115659
AMCA has two stages, Stage 1, mk1 will have GE414 and Mk2 will have indigenous engine.
We have to use all our power to get that license manufacturing for GE414 at bare minimum.
VRWFdu
No.115683
>>115645
Not for India, we morally didn't attack Paki army and our jets were sitting ducks cause muh Gamdhi principles.
z1YRDw
No.115685
>>115663
that's why I said this HAL needs to be privatised imo
VRWFdu
No.115688
>>115636
>Also, people are exaggerating the impact of pakis getting 5'th gen jet by chinks, when they will get is also a question.
Pakis are already training on J-20 and will have like 2 squadron of it till 2027.
I'd personally want India to buy 112 su 57 with local production lines.
F679X6
No.115702
>>115661
>not a single pakistani aircraft which crosses border will survive.
Literally no proof of this, just blind arrogance. They are using American and Chinese tech not paper ka plane
F679X6
No.115706
Also better to overestimate the enemy then to be surprised later
6ShC3e
No.115710
India should join joint fighter development with Japan. India doesn't have the know how to produce jet engines nor how to produce a good fighter jet. Expecting DRDO/HAL to go from producing tejas to AMCA in 20 years is like expecting maruti to go from producing Alto to rolls Royce in 10 years. It just doesn't happen regardless of what DRDO skills might say.
hDBuZr
No.115711
>>115624(OP)
india should not rely or work with usa at all if history has taught me anything. theyre far worse for india than china or pakistan in terms of hidden malice
gLhB8h
No.115720
>>115683
It's not moral thing yaaar. There's level of escalations - degree of deterrence.
Message was enough for them to run to USA to save their asses.
Casually over decades our retaliation has been evolving based on issues like at what level the skirmish can go nuclear and at what level it can be just conventional or even under that.
From days of dossiers to cross border raids (parallel but unacknowledged) to openly acknowledged cross border strikes, then air strikes then complete overt strikes on the bases - literally their capital region in a way and main bases getting targeted is evolution of our responses based on pakistani antics.
It's not over yet, it's not gandhian per se - yes there's a bit of influence in the past. But not even in 1999 we hit any place beyond the contested regions. There's clear change in our policy which is visible.
Sorry for those who wanted war.
>our jets were sitting ducks
Nuuh? Our jets were the ones who flew and lobbed Brahmos and Scalp and Rampage missiles on the pakistani bases.
>>115685
Privatization is not always the solution, there are issues which are beyond HAL. can be corporatized though for medium goal.
>>115688
Afaik there's report of J31. Once again - it's not that big of a deal but yeah it would be a good thing cuz it will force our planners to speed up AMCA project.
>>115702
Are, our ADs can literally identify their even 5th Gen aircrafts well within their border - even if we ignore IRL radar coverage.
Pic related is our Long range radar however it's mostly for BMD, but we do have systems which can track even the 5th gen ones.
Once again most of the pakistani bases are literally within the range of our stand off weapons, our radars. etc. We don't even have to cross the border for it.
Even the current response - officially we have the info that pakistanis couldn't cross the border. Our IACCS and Akashteer system performed exceptionally.
gLhB8h
No.115721
>>115706
There's definitely lots of learning from this conflict tbh.
gLhB8h
No.115733
Apart from Radars, Drones and Counter drone systems following things should be in focus
>SWIFT
Loitering kamikaze type drone, engines everything is indigenous. Has been already in trials.
>GHATAK UCAV
it is stealth, engine is also indigenous kaveri. Should be mass produced through private jv with HAL or something similar
>Get entire CATS program as a priority mission
>Get NewspaceIndia more budget to mass produce their drone systems
>More procurement of basic drones from Ideaforge
>Solarindustry nagastra whatever series of drones.
>Zen technologies anti drone system throughout the border, upgradation of L70s there are around 900 of which are not yet upgraded for anti-drone role.
>mass production of soft kill systems like DRDO dew weapon system - can be a very cheap alternative imo.
>Mass production of arty systems - prahar, pranash, pralay TELs, Pinaka series upto 300km+, ATAGS and MGS iterations.
For radars we already have programs, projects under DRDO. AESA GaN based. etc. etc. etc.
Missile tech is already matured in every domain. Mass production should be the focus for all of them.
Most of the facilities in pakistan are less than 300km away from our border. Once you realize this it provides way more idea about how to combat them. You don't need 5th gen to counter 5th gen.
F679X6
No.115734
>>115720
Just wait and watch sir, they will buy the russian toy eventually.
A25Tv9
No.115740
>>115720
>Nuuh? Our jets were the ones who flew and lobbed Brahmos and Scalp and Rampage missiles on the pakistani bases
Do you not know the chronology of events? Let me tell it to you.
-Rafale, and Su 30mki with cover provided by m2k launch strikes across terror camps in Pakistan.
-DGMO conveys to Pakis that they've strikes terrorists and no Paki military assets were targeted.
-At this point our jets are maneuvering in defensively
-PAF without wasting any time shoots PL-15 blitzkrieg targeting Indian jets and we lose a few.
SEAD/DEAD wasn't conducted as that'd mean violation of Gandhian philosophy and also cause this was a Political strike not a military strike.
Any military expert knows the importance of engaging enemies air and ground assets before conducting such raids.
Why do you think India will now not differ between Paki Military and Terrorists? Cause we can't lose any more jets.
A25Tv9
No.115745
>>115720
>Afaik there's report of J31. Once again - it's not that big of a deal but yeah it would be a good thing cuz it will force our planners to speed up AMCA project
AMCA only exists in Microsoft power point, do you know how long it took to bring Tejas mk1 to life?
AMCA offically conducts uts first flight in 2035, unofficially? You can guess.
Plus su-57 is cheaper than rafale, I see no point in not getting some.
jUz96z
No.115845
>>115745
Nobody even knows how good the su 57 really is. Even Russia doesn't have a large enough number and absolutely zero news about how it performed in Russia Ukraine conflict. Wouldn't it be better to buy a small number of f35 as a stop gap? Israel literally trolled Iran by flying f35s over tehran and literally had 0 planes shot down. Also there is no real proof of f35 having a kill switch.
gLhB8h
No.115859
>>115740
incorrect analysis, enumeration of the events.
don't conflate public messaging with our IAF or armed forces or republic's behaviour or SOPs.
There's lot to uncover about how we performed the mission but just to give hint, out of the 9 targets only 2 were given for IAF.
IAF didn't really perform SEAD ops but there was heavy ELINT/EW activity which are utilized.
Pakistanis are not interested in winning conflict, they don't want a war even they focus on just propaganda wins - hence their focus was not on objectives but salvos of PL15 from max distance same with AIM 120 in the past. There's also operational reason for it - to prevent aircrafs from closing in but that's different. We literally pretty much found intact pieces of PL15E.
There's more to it, we know that pakistanis lost a mirage, we also know that they lost a Jeff17, atleast for former we have credible data from official sources.
IAF didn't perform any SEAD action as a part of first phase of Op Sindoor, it did use lots of EW systems. Including spoofing, using DRDO abhyas etc. which is the reason why pakis have been claiming that gorillion aircrafts crossed into their territory.
Whatever you call as SEAD, came way after only first as a warning, then consistent spamming from North to south of entire pakistani stretch.
>>115745
>amca only exists in PPT
anyone who doesn't understand the commonality b/w mk1, mk1a, mk2 and amca will say that.
Again wrong. I can debate and refute everyone of your point. But i don't want to so leaving hints.
>su-57 is much cheaper
anyone who has no idea about how ruskies provide lowest entry barrier and how they increase the cost, cause delays will explain it.
India doesn't and shouldn't bail out ruskies once again. We don't need it.
Once again i will re-iterate my point that hyping pakis 5th gen - only one good purpose is that it can speed up our engine / 5th gen program outside it it's not a big deal something we can't handle.
Rafale for additional order rest is just paranoia and knee jerk overreaction by SM anons.
I agree with the sentiments that we should expedite things, but i disagree with the solutions being proposed and vehemently disagree with the procurement of the foreign gibs.
----
Though obviously this is just one of my opinions based on one set of information.
----
There's another set of information of lobby within IAF.
1) It's very likely that we will see follow on orders for Rafales by IAF.
2) It's also true that IAF lobby intentionally created a situation where they delayed indigenous projects, literally didn't even bother or care about upgradation of the flankers through super sukhoi program. In fact they were looking for more silver bullet in the form of rafales or import.
3) There's small chance that Checkmate (su75) or Felon (su57) may be procured - but i doubt about it.
gLhB8h
No.115860
>>115734
That's not really a worry. Russia can't offer them much which china hasn't already unless russia gives them S400 - but we will have our own Project Kusha and IACCS system etc. An AD system single type alone is not enough desu.
Russia does supply engines for their jeff fighters, cuz pakistanis trusted russian engines more than that of Chinese ones. I think flight computer or somethign are from sweden.
jUz96z
No.115887
>>115860
The newer chinese jets have chink engines I think. Belonging to the 'WS' Turbofan engine family. Any idea how good those engines are? I keep reading that that have low time before overhaul.
gLhB8h
No.115898
>>115887
WS-10 onwards. They can use them to fly their aircrafts so ig that's enough for them.
