/b/ - Random

The only reason why incels exist is because ugly gobarjeeta get to reproduce. Most incels don't get to reproduce(except in pajeetland at least till the last decade) while ugly foids shit up the genepool.

>>244771

True , a lot of incels would also die out if we take he above principle to extreme no doubt but the left over incels will find women equal to their status and society will be healthier. But all the bhangbhosda (no I wont outmarry) needs to go

>natural selection

>lets enforce it

When will the pajeets realise

>>244784

Yar retard

>>244767(OP)

To produce mongrels? no thanks.

>>244806

Just kys chutiya

>>244767(OP)

Cope. Ever heard of 'regression to the mean'. Doesnt matter if he/she has desirable traits but has bad lineage or pedigree. Humans have understood heredity for millenia. What makes you think they applied it on plants and animals but somehow not on themselves.

>>244867

Explain

>>244767(OP)

>Remember Krisna took 16,000 women as wives.

and had his entire genetic lineage eradicated for trying to genetically eradiate the other male lineages by cucking them. Kamic karmic justic indeed. TOTAL CHAD-FOID DUOPOLY EXTERMINATION NOW!!!

>>244906

You may have high iq as an outlier in your family and community but your child is more likely to be lower iq than you because of regression towards the mean. It is a statistical phenomenon. This is why lineage and pedigree of parents is so important as it ensures regression towards mean doesnt occur.

>>244867

>>244926

Then why did pajeets with caste endogamy not become the master race with the highest iq/strength/entrepreneurship etc but the exogamous whites did

>>244928

they practiced class endogamy though. literally pick up any regent era period pieces where the characters complain about it. Besides, a lot of shit was achieved by inbred jews

>>244928

>highest iq/strength/entrepreneurship

UCs have high iq which is why they dominate academics both at home and abroad. Baniyas have entrepreneural genes. Jats have good genes for strength.

>exogamous whites did

Whites too have had history of classism and class endogamy. Not all whites are geniuses. Its usually upper class whites descending from aristocracy, clergy and bourgeouise who have contributed the most in intellectual fields. Low class white trash are janitors, labourers and crackheads. Even whites have Jews to rival who are highest iq group in west despite being semitic and endogamous as they have been subjected to selection pressures for high iq for centuries to survive in europe. Blacks beat whites in athletics.

>>244938

>practiced class endogamy though

Pretty much everybody did that. But this disproves that endogamy is ideal due to genetics/lineage/purebred pedigree or whatever, because people of the same class can have significantly different genetics.

>inbred jews

Jews can look like africans, arabs, whites, indians or any group in the world. This is because they migrated all over world and married the locals, and so are only endogamous when it comes to religion and not race/lineage

People are comparing current age pajeets with white people and start to think that arrange marriages are dysgenic.

We actually have to compare ourselves with pic related which are our two ancestor groups ANI and AASI. If we look better than them then our practices have been eugenic, if not then dysgenic.

Our starting point is different. Europe starting point is different. Europe also had arranged marriages up untill the industrial revolution and subsequent urbanization.

>>244945

>endogamous when it comes to religion and not race/lineage

they're. The khazars who became jews never married anyone but those khazar converts

also this:

https://www.aporiamagazine.com/p/how-do-elite-groups-form

>>244940

>UCs have high iq which is why they dominate academics both at home and abroad. Baniyas have entrepreneural genes. Jats have good genes for strength

The reason for that is culture and networks. 1000s of years of purebred genetics should have made them the absolute best without a doubt, if the reason is genetics as you claim. But they are pretty mediocre or even below average compared to the world, and are good according to indian standards.

>Whites too have had history of classism and class endogamy. Not all whites are geniuses. Its usually upper class whites descending from aristocracy, clergy and bourgeouise who have contributed the most in intellectual fields. Low class white trash are janitors, labourers and crackheads

How did you bring class into a discussion about genetics? People of the same class can have wildly different genes.

Also, the "aristocracy" wasnt constant... peasants and random tribes overthrew kings to become the new aristocracy all the time.

Another thing is, most people in usa arent descended from aristocracies. They were mostly poor peasants, and thats the reason they left europe in the first place-to seek a new life. So american whites should be underachievers compared to euros right? That isnt really the case.

>Even whites have Jews to rival who are highest iq group in west despite being semitic and endogamous as they have been subjected to selection pressures for high iq for centuries to survive in europe

Refer >>244945. Success of jews go against your point of genetics.

>Blacks beat whites in athletics

This is one of the few instances where genes have been proven to be beneficial. But one, it would be better for blacks if that gene spread to all blacks through exogamy that remain confined to only a small tribe. And two, iq, success, entrepreneurship are far more complex.

>>244945

>Pretty much everybody did that.

Yes

>this disproves that endogamy is ideal due to genetics/lineage/purebred pedigree or whatever, because people of the same class can have significantly different genetics.

Classes are endogamous by their very nature as they are hereditary. And they were marrying people of same class within their ethnicity or race. Most european royal families were related due to centuries of intermarriage.

>Jews can look like africans, arabs, whites, indians or any group.

Yes and they have normal iqs. Ashkenazi jews (european ones) are the high iq ones with avg iq of 115. They are the dominant group in israel. They produced bohr, feynmann, einstein, marx etc.

>>244957

Long ass cope

>culture and networks

Cope. Why did dalits not do the same.

>peasants and random tribes overthrew kings to become the new aristocracy all the time.

Yes and these overthrows mostly resulted in some noble taking the place of king with bureaucracy intact or bourgeouise installing a republic to further their interests and form the elite.

>So american whites should be underachievers compared to euros right?

Look up the early life section of most great men and geniuses. They mostly descend from clergy, aristocracy or bourgeouise. And america isnt better than europe except in military. America has also attracted talent from europe and other places to silicon valley.

>>244961

>ethnicity or race

These are social constructs and different from ancestries which is the scientifically rigorous term to use if you want to discuss genetics. The early european royalty descended from celts, germanics, central asian nomads like huns/magyars, and a lot more. These are all very diverse groups.

>Ashkenazi jews (european ones) are the high iq ones with avg iq of 115

I know that, but i am not sure how they prove your point that we need purebred lineages to create a master race or whatever.

>>244957

>But they are pretty mediocre or even below average compared to the world, and are good according to indian standards.

Selection pressure wasn't that high in Indian context since these groups didn't face much competition, IQ is a result of selection pressure.

>>244976

And there were never any environmental stressors in the tropical climate.

>>244970

>Long ass cope

Nice way of saying you dont have a rebuttal.

>Why did dalits not do the same

The ones who did stopped being dalits.

>Yes and these overthrows mostly resulted in some noble taking the place of king with bureaucracy intact or bourgeouise installing a republic to further their interests and form the elite

Ok?

>They mostly descend from clergy, aristocracy or bourgeouise

Doesnt prove your point about genetics again, as people of wildly different genetics can become any of these.

>And america isnt better than europe except in military

America is better than europe in literally everything except crime rates.

>>244970

Also to add america has the highest jewish population. Even higher than israel.

>>244980

>prove your point about genetics again.

Cope. Iq is 80% genetic.

>are social constructs and different from ancestries.

How hard is it for you to understand that upper class people in a country or ethnicity are more likely to marry each other?

>>244973

>I know that, but i am not sure how they prove your point that we need purebred lineages to create a master race or whatever.

Ashkenazis have really strong founder's effect, its actually pretty simple, breeding within their group has allowed them to retain their genes associated with intelligence, which were acquired via selection pressure.

>>244980

>The ones who did stopped being dalits.

And i am talking about the current ones who failed in life.

>>244988

More likely, yes. But if they had an opportunity to marry someone from a different ethnic group with good genetics, they did so.

How hard is it for you to understand that caste endogamy inhibited this inflow and spread of good genetics?

>>244990

If they were good enough to attract someone with their iq/wealth/other qualities, they shouldnt be prevented from doing so which you are against because muh regression to

>>244992

Even the influx of foreign genetic material was largely maternal, which implies that Ashkenazi identity has been predominantly patrilineal. This is further supported by the lack of diversity in Y-haplogroups among Ashkenazi males.

>>244992

>But if they had an opportunity to marry someone from a different ethnic group with good genetics, they did so.

No they didnt. And on rare occassions they did with some similar ethnic group they checked family background. Children born to concubines were always considered of inferior lineage and unfit for throne.

>>244997

You have zero knowledge of history if you think european royalty were some purebreds.

No point talking with you. Go read about their origins and history

>>244994

>they shouldnt be prevented from doing so.

Most of them arent capable to begin with without gibs. For a rare few, they cant be prevented anyway instead we who care about our caste/ lineage should educate our own children from early on about spouse selection, pedigree and family values rather than blaming others.

>>245003

And you have zero knowledge of what is being said. Iq is hereditary and upper classes have higher concentration of high iq genes due to selection pressures. Besides the common race, over time people in a class become genetically similar due to long history of intermarriage. Its that simple. No one here is advocating for inbreeding. Indian castes arent inbred populations. They have populations in millions and are region specific. Punjabi brahmins, mithila brahmins, tamil brahmins are unrelated. They are brahmins (priestly class) of their respective regions/countries.

>>244994

I don’t think they ever were. There were instances of men being appropriated into the varna fold in cases where there weren’t any capable male heirs. But these were rare, since most castes were usually able to find heirs within their own community, and the likelihood of capable heirs being born outside specific varnas was also very low.

>>245012

>Punjabi brahmins, mithila brahmins, tamil brahmins are unrelated. They are brahmins (priestly class) of their respective regions/countries.

They are separated, yes. But these groups still trace descent back to a common set of ancestors.

>>245020

All of us share ancestors with varying degrees but these are quite distant communities. These brahmins share more ancestors in common with other castes of their repective regions than each other.

>>245028

You basically see three Brahmin clusters: Western (Punjabi, Kashmiri, Gujarati), Gangetic, and Deccan-South. There’s overlap between them, the plots show that too. I’m not denying the substructure, but it’s important not to read too much into it without proper context.

For Northwestern Brahmins, there’s a pretty clear genetic cline running from Kashmiri Pandits (which the other Western groups fall into) toward the Gangetic cluster. That points to shared ancestry, not totally separate origins. So the idea that the NW cluster isn’t related to Gangetic Brahmins doesn’t really line up with the genetic data.

About SIBs, yeah, they do show some extra Indus Farmer ancestry, even higher than modern Todas. But that doesn’t mean they sit in between UP Brahmins and Landowners. Genetically, they’re still closer to other Brahmins overall. No SIBs mixed with today’s Landowners, and their genetics don’t cline that way.

What actually happened is that modern SIB subcastes came from several waves of NIB migration into the Deccan-South, from both the Northwest (Kashmir, Gujarat, Punjab) and UP. This started in the Late Vedic period and kept happening through the early medieval era. You see this backed up in genetics, archaeology, and even the traditions that SIB subcastes themselves preserve.

https://namboothiri.com/articles/history.htm#:~:text=The%20Brahmanans%20of%20Kerala%20are,migrating%20along%20the%20West%20Coast.

If these happened all the Lowercastes will get extinct naturally

>>245113

You will see cline and overlap everywhere. It exists along both castes and geography in india. But genetic distances clearly show things are more nuanced. Brahmins are much similar to other castes in their respective regions than to other distant brahmins due to differences in ethnogenesis.

>>245130

>It exists along both castes and geography in India.

It’s more concentrated along caste than geography. My point above was that a Brahmin subcaste will always be closest to other Brahmin subcastes within the same cluster. After that, the entire cluster will still be closer to a different cluster of Brahmins than to any regional non-Brahmin cluster.

>But genetic distances clearly show things are more nuanced.

That’s based on a handful of coordinates from G25. Global25 is just a PCA-based tool, and the results shift a lot depending on what reference samples are used. It’s not reliable for admixture or distance checks. Fst distances are much better for that.

>due to differences in ethnogenesis.

No, it’s the other way around. It’s a cline, like I said. Comparing unrelated groups with different ethnogenesis isn’t meaningful. It’s like comparing Baniyas to NW Chamars, they might overlap autosomally, but that overlap doesn’t actually mean much.

>>245152

>My point above was that a Brahmin subcaste will always be closest to other Brahmin subcastes within the same cluster After that, the entire cluster will still be closer to a different cluster of Brahmins than to any regional non-Brahmin cluster.

This is so wrong. Brahmins arent an ethnic group. They have siginificant regional variations.

>they might overlap autosomally, but that overlap doesn’t actually mean much.

Yeah but it still doesnt tell you about brahmins. Brahmins arent a monolith. We know the patterns. Gangetic ones have higher steppe and higher aasi than NW ones who have more iranN instead whereas SiB have very low steppe compared to NiB. It clearly shows many local non vedic clergy were assimilated into brahmin fold with spread of vedic culture. The nucleus that emerged from Kuru region might have been common but it expanded to the point where massive differences exist now.

>>245178

> This is so wrong. Brahmins aren’t an ethnic group. They have significant regional variations.

I’ve already mentioned the clusters and the distances between them. I’m talking about clusters as a whole, not individual subcastes. For example, a Punjabi Saraswat is closer to a Gujarati Brahmin than to any non-Brahmin caste from the same NW region. Sure, there are in-group differences, but that doesn’t contradict the cline that exists both within regions and across castes.

>Yeah, but it still doesn’t tell you about Brahmins. Brahmins aren’t a monolith. Gangetic Brahmins have higher Steppe and higher AASI than NW Brahmins, who have more Iran_N, whereas SIBs have very low Steppe compared to NIBs.

You’re focusing too much on marginal differences in autosomal ancestry, but my point is that these profiles weren’t formed the same way. Northwestern Brahmins came from UP Brahmins + high farmer, lower SAHG substrate. I’m not denying these differences, they’re just a result of migrations and some local assimilation over time. Southern Brahmins have CentralSteppe_MLBA ancestry in the upper teens, close to 20%, and are genetically shifted toward Northern Brahmins. The main differentiator now is subcaste.

>It clearly shows many local non-Vedic clergy were assimilated into the Brahmin fold with the spread of Vedic culture.

That’s heavy inference and isn’t actually supported by historical evidence. Every group today practiced endogamy across the country. The oldest Shrauta-practicing Pandits, appearing since Sangam-era Tamilakam, did not intermarry with much younger subcastes like Iyengars or Vadadesha Vadamas, both of which only appear in the Medieval period.

> The nucleus that emerged from Kuru region might have been common, but it expanded to the point where massive differences exist now.

The differences you see genetically are due to migrations, but that doesn’t change the fact that they all originated from the same base population. Despite in-group differences between regional clusters and subcastes, these differences aren’t nearly as large as those between Brahmins and non-Brahmin castes or regional clusters.

>>245251

Its just very ludicrous premise. So you think there werent priestly classes in those regions that existed before brahmins started migrating or that they just all vanished when brahmins arrived? C'mon. Theres a reason why y haplogroup J is so prevalent among NW brahmins and haplogroup H and others among gangetic and south indian ones. Its very ridiculous to think that brahmins that originated as a cult in kuru region managed to spread across the subcon with such large numbers seen today and that large scale assimilation of pre existing priestly classes did not occur. It simply doesnt follow demographically, archaeogenetically and logically.

>>245297

>So you think there weren’t priestly classes in those regions before Brahmins started migrating, or that they just all vanished when Brahmins arrived?

It feels like you skipped over part of my previous post. I literally mentioned the existence of older priestly castes and how they didn’t intermingle with the new subcastes the way you suggested. They stayed as their own subcastes but were gradually superseded by newer subcastes in both numbers and relevance. Remnants of these older subcastes still exist today and remain highly endogamous.

>There’s a reason why Y haplogroup J is so prevalent among NW Brahmins and haplogroup H and others among Gangetic and South Indian ones.

That’s not accurate. The predominant haplogroups across most Brahmin subcastes are CentralSteppe_MLBA-related clades (R1, Q, N), except for a few minority subcastes with different founders. Non-CentralSteppe_MLBA haplogroups entered through local adoptions during the Late Vedic period, for example, when Rigvedic families had no male heir, they adopted locally. These adoptions don’t change the fact that Brahmins as a group primarily descend from the lineages with the highest rates of CentralSteppe_MLBA clades. They just show how early admixture occurred.

>Tt’s very ridiculous to think that Brahmins, originating as a cult in the Kuru region, managed to spread across the subcontinent in such large numbers today, and that large scale assimilation of pre existing priestly classes did not occur.

This stems from a lack of understanding about how these castes formed, interacted, and migrated over time. I’m not saying everything happened simultaneously. Even among SIBs, there were multiple migrations in different periods from different regions.

>>245328

>The predominant haplogroups across most Brahmin subcastes are CentralSteppe_MLBA-related clades (R1, Q, N), except for a few minority subcastes.

Source? R1 is dominant in many non brahmin indian communities so it doesnt mean much. In fact it is the most prevalent y haplo in india especially in north even among dalits. NW brahmins have significant J haplo. Kashmiri brahmins especially iirc.

I can gauge through your theories how you try to view brahmins as some ethnic group distinct from non brahmins but its just too ludicrous and rests on dodgy assumptions.

>>245328

>This stems from a lack of understanding about how these castes formed, interacted, and migrated over time.

Just admit we all including you just know the tip of iceberg thanks to poor historical documentation and severe lack of genetic studies on indians. I claim no absolute knowledge of brahmin ethnogenesis because honestly everyone out there is inventing his own theories. I just go by what i feel is the most reasonable explanation.

>>245344

>NW brahmins have significant J haplo. Kashmiri brahmins especially iirc.

source pls

>>245361

It was a study by Narsimhan et al iirc. Look it up. Bihar paswans (dalits) were also found to have higher R1a frequency than brahmins in the study.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2022/11/17/the-varieties-of-brahmins-and-others/

https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/05/02/brahmins-were-made-in-india-not-the-steppe/

>>245378

this is not scientific research. Thats just some muzzie blogger trying to spin his agenda.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2025/09/15/%f0%9f%95%8c-the-honey-trap-of-the-ummah-reflections-on-kabir-afridi-and-the-compact-of-coexistence/#comment-118154:~:text=and%20more%20crucially%2C%20about%20Indian%20and%20Pakistani%20Muslims

>>244785

that's why we need eugenics

>>245398

and BhaCh should rather organize a raid on his comment section. It looks alive.

>>245398

Its an open forum pajeet. The author is different. Besides i only linked it so that you could see the table of haplo distribution by caste. Thats sourced from Narsimhan et al.

>>245425

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R1a_frequency_by_population

>>245449

Bhangianon cite the research paper. Stop posting random links.

>>244767(OP)

Real tho

Ive seen so many brahmins who deserved to go extinct 5 generations ago. So fucking ugly...

>>244926

abe gobarjeet, if parents are high iq enough, child will be high iq too, people who do inter caste dont do it for fetishes, they also look for criterias like looks/intelligence/wealth.

>>245344

>>245344

>Source

Picrel is for Haryana Brahmins. Haryanvi Brahmins do have a slightly lower frequency of R1a and CentralSteppe_MLBA clades than gangetic Brahmins, but even then, CentralSteppe_MLBA lineages still show up at the highest frequency. I only brought up Y-haplogroups because you claimed NW Brahmins have higher J than CentralSteppe_MLBA-derived clades, which is false. But honestly, my point was never about haplogroups specifically. For example, in this study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10306963/ it was shown that Brahmins from Rajasthan and Haryana share more allelic affinity with each other than with their non-Brahmin neighbors. Phylogenetic trees (UPGMA) and PCA plots also place Rajasthan and Haryana Brahmins closer to each other, and together they cluster with Saraswat Brahmins from Himachal Pradesh.

>R1 is dominant in many non-Brahmin Indian communities so it doesn’t mean much. In fact it’s the most prevalent Y-haplo in India, especially in the north, even among Dalits. NW Brahmins have significant J haplo. Kashmiri Brahmins especially, iirc.

I never denied the presence of Steppe-derived lineages and ancestry among non-Brahmin groups in South Asia.

>I can gauge through your theories how you try to view Brahmins as some ethnic group distinct from non Brahmins but it’s just too ludicrous and rests on dodgy assumptions.

I don’t have a personal agenda here. I’m just basing my take on the data I can find, and so far it points to most (keyword: most) Brahmins across South Asia tracing their lineage back to a parental group of ancestors that later dispersed across the subcontinent.

There’s also linguistic evidence for these migrations. For example, The first Brahmins reached Tamil Country during the rise of the Sangam age and this is attested in the Sangam literature itself, we see mentions of Brahmins picking up from this period on.

>>245539

Retard citation pe jaa na. Ref 'Underhill et al'. Punjabi, kashmiri brahmins have significant J haplo.

On a side note, it would be interesting if we find some studies on sindhi brahmins. I believe they will be quite high iranN.

>>245349

I don't disagree that more data and samples are always better, however I would like to once again clarify that I am merely stating what makes the most sense after deducing the current data and evidences we have, this is not really my personal opinion.

>>244767(OP)

Made this thread in morning as a meme and 60 replies kek

https://temp.bharatchan.com/board/b/thread/37

>>245706

shut yo ass up, we're being pedatic here because it's an important subject lololololol

>>245717

pedantic* i hate phones

>>244928

Whites of today are hardly the role models to look up to. They are failing as a race in our time due to all their dysgenic practices like reversal of flynn effect (drop in avg iq) due to overbreeding of poor enabled by welfare, their dwindling numbers as a race leading to their replacement and their ignorance of eugenics despite being the champions of it a century ago. Evolution is indifferent to us living beings. Evolutionary forces dont care whether consequences of your actions are good or bad. If whites as a race head towards muttification or extinction with their dysgenic or anti reproductive practices, it will just happen.

>>245809

Kek

>>245695

ChamarJi post sampling info

>>246038

Retard read the whole linked paper if you cant cope with facts. Bela nahi betha hu tujhe sab kuch parosne ke liye.

>>246050

>The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system

>Indian Origin of R1a1

>Indian Origin

Bhangi Ji why are you trying to pass the biased OIT researches as legit info ? What nefarious agenda r u on to show that KPs are non-R1a ?

>>246069

Nature article ko kyu quote kar raha hai, lodu? I never linked the article you are quoting. I referred to 'Underhill et al' citation given with that wikipedia table. Chutiya saala mera time waste kar raha hai randwa.

Underhill, P.A.; Myres, Natalie M; Rootsi, Siiri; Metspalu, Mait; Zhivotovsky, Lev A; King, Roy J; Lin, Alice A; Chow, Cheryl-Emiliane T; et al. (2009), "Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 18 (4): 479–484, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2009.194, PMC 2987245, PMID 19888303

>>246159

bhai dalit, KPs ke liye sharma et al (2009) k hawaala hai

>>246169

Jammu and other brahmins data comes from Underhill and it shows significant J. If you dont consider other studies reliable, why dont you find or provide the one that you have read and supports your claims? R1a has multiple possible place of origin. Just because some study speculates india as homeland doesnt mean you get to dismiss the data chutiye and if you do then better provide an alternative research paper bhosadiwale.

>>246189

underhill nowhere talks about Jammu Brahmins.

You still haven't posted any source chandala ji.

>>246222

Table dekh retard. Wont be wasting time with someone who dismisses data without providing any himself. Why dont you provide us accurate haplo frequency data if you have it. Keep coping. Get your own extended family tested and see the distribution for yourself, low iq idiot.

>>246242

stop making fake claims on internet just to support foreign agenda

>>246248

Either give accurate data or stfu. You dont get to dismiss research papers when you have none yourself.

>>246222

https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/05/02/brahmins-were-made-in-india-not-the-steppe/

Click on the first image shown and download the 20MB document by Narsimhan et al (2019). Instruction was clearly given but you autists cant even read.

>You still haven't posted any source.

I posted multiple but you cant even read. Everything has been posted for those who are bela enough to read it all.

>>246474

do you think this is an appropriate sample size considering 246 groups from south asia ?